Curse

Rhamia Darigaz · Jul 30, 2008, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

I always use one superior rune in PvP. Guess which one.

energy storage

thral · Jul 30, 2008, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Theyre fine, if they change no more 55 O_O!!! Not that i care :P. If you die and blame them remember:
A professional never blames his tools.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jul 30, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by thral

Theyre fine, if they change no more 55 O_O!!! Not that i care :P. If you die and blame them remember:
A professional never blames his tools.

unless for example you happen to be a musician and your trombone gets rusty. how are you supposed to play that?

Shadowhaze · Jul 30, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Depending on the profession, I'll use a sup rune and maybe vigor rune(s) to help with the health. And as others have said, you could armor swap when you need too. Trading off health for a bit more spell potency is ok with me. Would it be nice not to have the health trade off? Sure.

Oh and...no more 55 monky? That would make me sad.

Abedeus · Jul 30, 2008, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I use Superior only on my Ranger farming armor set (+1 mask +3 wilderness), 50/330/bip setups for, respectively, Monk or Rit, Rit and Ranger. Oh, and my Ritualist Communing (but I've got 2 communing headwraps, one +1 and one +3). And smiter monkie/smiter mesmer have +3 smite and +3 illusion respectively. Oh, and paragon, but I still have over 510 health. Limitless energy ftw, so I dont need attunement/radiant insignias/runes. Oh, and elementalist with Earth headgear for solo tanking, as it boosts my chances of surviving, makes OF maintaining easier and speeds up killing.

Other chars, assassin, rit, mesmer, monk and pvp monk, other pvp chars have minors.

Dante the Warlord · Jul 30, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Superior runes made a comeback with the intro of the new buffed SF... Well just that one, but i think they could make a comeback with a new innovative build that requires high attribute level.

Ozric · Jul 30, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

I run Sup+Maj rune combos on myself and all of my heroes,...

Have I been doing it wrong? o.O

AshenX · Jul 30, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

I run a superior rune on most of my characters. As has been said before...if that 75 health is the difference between success and failure at a mission/vanquish, whatever then there are more serious problems in your party than suprerior runes.

That said I will admit that I am ready to armor swap if things go really badly and I need a few extra HP.

Kanyatta · Jul 30, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

unless for example you happen to be a musician and your trombone gets rusty. how are you supposed to play that?

Yeah, no one likes a rusty trombone.

enter_the_zone · Jul 30, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

I don't run sup runes, because the breakpoint of most of my builds skills is such that I don't need them. The tradeoff isn't worth it.

For specific builds, I still use them, but it's rare.

Spazzer · Jul 30, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Damage is pretty easy to do these days. You don't need a superior rune to get it, and wearing a superior rune makes you really squishy.

Lady Raenef · Jul 30, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

You know what is funny...

That some people actually buy them.

I have a superior vigor on all my characters. Does that make me fail?

As for the rest, they're all minor. I'd rather keep my health.

Grunntar · Jul 31, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

I'm curious... For all those people that wouldn't put a superior (attribute) rune on a hero, do you use vigor runes for your heroes?

Are you saying that you wouldn't put on a superior (attribute) rune on your heroes because your heroes don't have any vigor runes either?

Or is it that you'd never put on a superior (attribute) rune, no matter what...?

It's either a tough slog to earn 250 minor vigor runes, (one for each hero, spread across 10 characters), or it's really expensive.

Or perhaps you have a small number of vigor runes, and just keep moving them around between heroes. That gets expensive too, with all the salvage kits that you can expend...

Lady Raenef · Jul 31, 2008, 12:54 AM // 00:54

To answer the above question, I have no runes on any of my heroes. They also just use /bonus weapons, however, they get along just fine.

glacialphoenix · Jul 31, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grunntar

I'm curious... For all those people that wouldn't put a superior (attribute) rune on a hero, do you use vigor runes for your heroes?

Are you saying that you wouldn't put on a superior (attribute) rune on your heroes because your heroes don't have any vigor runes either?

Or is it that you'd never put on a superior (attribute) rune, no matter what...?

It's either a tough slog to earn 250 minor vigor runes, (one for each hero, spread across 10 characters), or it's really expensive.

Or perhaps you have a small number of vigor runes, and just keep moving them around between heroes. That gets expensive too, with all the salvage kits that you can expend...

I rune up those heroes that I use the most often. I don't use Ogden, so he's completely unruned, whereas Gwen, Tahlkora and Vekk are nearly fully kitted out. No, I don't use Superior runes on them, either, although Vekk has a Major Fire Magic on him.

Lishy · Jul 31, 2008, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by komma

dang ive been running w sup runes on my headpieces this whole time

/facepalm

Old post, but quoted for the truth.
I give heroes Major though

glountz · Jul 31, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

When talking about malus, one should also notice that in the current system minor runes come with a hidden malus as well since you always have a choice of using a minor attribute rune or a rune of Vitae. Hence, you are effectively trading away 10 HP for one additional attribute point. Because this is a trade-off that everybody seems to be willing to make we have a hard lower limit on the size of acceptable malus. Now if we take the hidden malus into account with other runes as well we get

minor: -10/1 = -10 HP/point -> acceptable
major: -(10+35)/2 = -22.5 HP/point -> not acceptable
superior: -(10+75)/3 = -28.3 HP/point -> not acceptable

People who point out that the 'minors only' policy solidified along with the armor swap prohibition in PvP are absolutely right, and that's the point where a previously existing balance with runes broke down as an unintended consequence. If we work backwards and assume that a trade-off of -15 HP/point would still be marginally acceptable, then the proper malus for each potency would be

minor -(15*1 - 10) = -5 HP
major -(15*2 - 10) = -20 HP
superior -(15*3 - 10) = -35 HP

And this, of course, for PvP because that's where the balance doesn't currently exist. This is not a suggestion, just an observation.

10 HP/point is viable when there is no breakpoint (I prefer vitae rune if there's no interesting breakpoint), 15 is for breakpoints. Even for that, and considering PVE, Sup runes are a lot rarer than minors. As such, their HP/point ratio should be in fact better than minor ones.
That's the case for Vigor runes, where sup ones are a lot better than minor ones.
As such I would prefer:

minor -(10*1 - 10) = -0 HP
major -(9*2 - 10) = -8 HP, round to -10 HP.
superior -(8*3 - 10) = -14 HP, rounded to -15 HP.

And you would give back sup runes a true interest. Because actually, sup runes are just a drawback.

Divinus Stella · Jul 31, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Most people arguments focus around the health loss claiming that the 75HP health cap they lose isn't worth the 15~ extra HP they get from a spell like heal party, but i don't see any justification for people wanting more HP.

I assume most PvE players just use ursan blessing and have a bunch of monks stood around at the back spamming party buffs, that extra 15HP from heal party used hundreds of times during a clearing adds up to much more than the 75HP health loss on the monk.

Also why on earth does the monk need to have 700HP? he could have 100HP and still see no negative effect unless hes tanking the mobs himself which i think means that the bears failed badly and its party wipe time regardless.

I've been at 450HP since i started playing the game, all my heroes are at roughly the same HP because i give them all superior runes and 40/40 sets as to get the most of their builds, ive vanquished the entire game with heros and hench and not had any problems and i don't ever bother with a tank or using agro control i just lure everything in sight and nuke it, 1 healer, 1 prot and 6 fully buffed damage dealers can take care of any mob without any deaths, i think the mistake most people make in PvE is that they play too defensively giving time for the enemy to actually use their skills.

Surely the only person that should worry about having a decent health cap in a team is the person that's tanking, if the casters in the team actually reach a point where 75HP is the difference between life and death then they have already failed.

isildorbiafra · Jul 31, 2008, 10:23 AM // 10:23

All people including I always run a SUPERIOR rune...............of VIGOR! So, I say superior is here to stay!

isildorbiafra · Jul 31, 2008, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

To answer the above question, I have no runes on any of my heroes. They also just use /bonus weapons, however, they get along just fine.

.....and how's the vanquishing going with h/h? Might want to rethink your tactics?